Interview with Robert Stickel from Sabertooth Games by Kain Maxi (Ken McIntyre)
Robert Stickel
Overview: Sabertooth Games specializes in the Collectible Card Game market. As supporters of SNK and Capcom products, they have produced CCG for King of Fighters 2006, Samurai Shodown V and Street Fighter under their UFS (Universal Fighting System).
The first thing that I notice as I drive up to the cluster of buildings that houses Games Workshop and its subsidiaries is the statue. Mounted on a tall stone pedestal in the center of the parking lot is a massive stone figurine of a Space Marine. The statue symbolizes the prominence of one of Games Workshop’s most well-known intellectual properties, Warhammer 40,000, and re-emphasizes the unique opportunity that I have before me.
I park and walk up to the set of offices out of which Sabertooth Games operates. My intention is simply to introduce myself. I’ll then ask for an interview at a later date. Instead, I am welcomed warmly into the office by staff members Alex Bartos and Robert Stickel. ( I’ll come to learn in the upcoming weeks that this genial spirit is a trademark of the various members of the staff.) Upon hearing my request, Robert smiles and asks if I’d like to do the interview now. Surprised and delighted, I readily accept.
We walk from the offices down a short hallway and into a huge room that Robert calls the ‘Battle Bunker.’ It is filled with 4x6 and 4x8-foot gaming tables. Space Marine Chapter banners hang down from the ceiling, giving the room an appropriately martial feel. Robert tells me that on the weekends the Battle Bunker is full of gamers doing battle in a variety of tabletop strategy games.
Near one corner of the room are a pair of comfortable chairs and a table piled high with gaming magazines and comic book trade paperbacks. Each of us takes a seat, and the questions and answers begin to flow in earnest.
Kain Maxi: Thanks for agreeing to do this interview – and especially on such short notice.
Robert Stickel: Oh, it’s no problem. This seems like the season to do interviews for me. I just did one for pulpgamer.com.
KM: Pulpgamer.com? What’s that?
RS: Pulpgamer is a website that does podcasts on different aspects of non-electronic gaming.
KM: Wow. I’d never even heard of them. I do think that it’s interesting that everyone is doing podcasts these days. Guess that’s the wave of the future…
RS: Yep.
KM: So, tell me about Sabertooth Games. How long has it been around?
RS: Sabertooth Games has been around for over 5 years. We were based out of Seattle, Washington, then were purchased by Games Workshop and relocated to Memphis. We are the Collectible Card Game division of Games Workshop.
So, on to our games. Our bread and butter is what we call the Universal Fighting System. That one game system encompasses many different [intellectual] properties: Street Fighter, Samurai Shodown, King of Fighters, and Soulcalibur III. We also just acquired a new property, and that’s Darkstalkers.
KM: You’ve got Darkstalkers as well? That’s pretty cool.
RS: Yeah, it is. You know, it’s kind of funny. Of the licenses that we have, Darkstalkers seems to be the smallest. Yet, it has some very dedicated, vocal fans. They’ve been very happy to hear about the launching of that product.
KM: I’ve also noticed how dedicated the Darkstalkers fans are. There aren’t any new games coming out for the property, and yet you’ve got this small, focused group of fans who are really dedicated to the characters and the storyline.
RS: (laughs) Yeah, it’s a cool property. You’ve got catgirls, and robots, and werewolves, and even a Sasquatch.
Anyway, our Universal Fighting System lets us add multiple licenses into one game. You can then play these characters in head to head match-ups. We hold tournaments all over the world that –
KM: (interrupts) You hold tournaments all over the world?
RS: Yes! We have held tournaments in Canada and the UK, and next year we’ll be adding major tournaments in Sweden and France. We held the World Championships at Gen-Con in Indianapolis. The winner of that world tournament wins what we like to call “the coolest prize in gaming.” (Pauses)
KM: The coolest prize in gaming? Ok, you’ve gotta explain that one…
RS: (laughs) Ok, here’s how it works. We don’t offer big cash prizes to the top 1% of the industry. We put all that money back into the core hobby stores.
In order to play the card game, you need a character card. For example, you could play a game using the character card in front of you, and that’s Mai [Shiranui]. What we offer to the winner of the world tournament is his own individualized character card. We get a picture of you, and our art guys go to work. We can put you in some armor, give you weapons – whatever ‘look’ you want. Then we get you to come in, and the game designers work out moves and abilities that will make your character unique.
KM: You’re right….that is the coolest prize in gaming. I thought that you just were using hyperbole – but the idea of actually getting to be a character in the game rocks!
RS: Doesn’t it? For example, the winner of the 2006 World Championship was a guy named Matt Kohls. We made up 800 foil cards featuring his character. That means that Matt can play matches against anyone in the world using a deck that features – him! The character is fully compatible with the rest of UFS card systems, so any of the other cards will work for him. And we gave the 800 cards that we made up to Matt – so the only way that you can get his card is to go to him directly! You’d either have to ask him, or play him head to head…
Our 2007 world champion is a guy from Michigan named Andrew Olexa, and we’re designing his card right now!
KM: Wow. I can’t stress enough how cool that prize is.
RS: Yeah, the individualized character cards for the World Champions are tournament legal and fully compatible [with all other cards] – which is awesome. (laughs)
KM: So what are some of the other tournaments, and where are they held?
RS: Well, there are the Canadian Nationals, the UK Nationals, the US nationals, the French Nationals, the Swedish Nationals…
KM: That’s…amazing. I was really unaware that card game was such a global phenomenon. I mean, I’m a pretty dedicated videogamer, and I think that when you’re dedicated to any particular facet of gaming, you are at least peripherally aware of other types of gaming. So I was aware of card games. But I never knew that they were that widespread.
RS: Yes, card gaming is global. And one interesting things about that is that the Universal Fighting System isn’t available in mass market outlets.
KM: Oh – you mean that you can’t buy them down at Wal-Mart or the like.
RS: Exactly. We support only core hobby, brick-and-mortar stores.
KM: You know, I remember that there were a lot more hobby stores around Memphis 15 years or so ago.
RS: Yes, and a lot of them are gone. That’s why we do as much as we can to support the brick and mortar retailers.
KM: Brick and mortar?
RS: That’s the term that we use for the hobby stores that have an actual retail front. We provide special services to those outlets to help them grow. We don’t provide these services to internet discounters.
KM: Ah, I see. Hence the term “brick and mortar.” Those services are for real world outlets only.
RS: Yep. Real world stores only.
KM: So what are some of the services that you provide to the brick and mortar retailers?
RS: Well, we give them free demo decks, free posters, and free prizes. We arrange events for them to help promote the store and our product. We also advertise for them for free.
KM: How do you advertise for them?
RS: We use various methods. We use print media such as the gaming magazines – magazines like Game Trade, Game Buyer, Mana Rouge. We also use the internet as an advertising tool. Finally, we make use of opportunities like this. Look, we’re a 15-man company. There are much larger competitors out there. In order for us to compete, we must do interviews and the like. We can’t say no to any opportunity to promote our game or the core hobby community. We even visit stores in person to run demos and promote the game, and that keeps us much closer to our player base.
KM: What else do you do to remain competitive?
RS: There are two ways that we succeed. We find ways to help the stores that sell our product, and we have great customer service. We call the stores to see how things are going. We ask questions like “What can we do to grow the game and better support you this month?” If players call us for free demo decks and want to know where they can go to a local outlet, we’ll direct them to the stores. Then we tell the stores that ‘we sent some people your way.’ The one thing that the stores always tell us that they appreciate is the fact that we don’t supply to mass market outlets and that we have the best support in the industry. Keeping our product only in their store is a huge competitive advantage for them. We are invested in helping to keep them going.
As I said, we help stores run events (Organized Play). As a matter of fact we have several big promotions coming up. I mentioned that we have recently acquired the Darkstalkers property. We’re launching that the third week in November (Nov. 16th). And one of the things that we do that helps is this: anyone can go to our website and request a set of free demo decks. The decks come with instructions, so that a person who just happens to see that these cards exist but who never knew that before can order them free and then learn how to play the game with a friend. We trust that if they like it enough, then they’ll buy other cards. Just go to www.sabertoothgames.com/ufs/demodeck to get your free set.
KM: That’s impressive. You mentioned a minute ago that if someone wants a deck but doesn’t know where they can get one, you can direct them to a local store. That must require a pretty impressive database.
RS: Well, doing that kind of work isn’t easy. We sure didn’t take the easy route!
KM: I see that.
RS: (laughs) There’s a quote that states that there is that which is right and there is that which is easy – and the two are seldom the same. We do what is right for our customers. We’re always looking to sign new properties for our fans. In fact there are projects with new properties in the works right now that I can’t speak about yet.
KM: You know…I think that I can see a lot of the appeal of the UFS. You’re familiar with the various ‘versus’ titles - Marvel versus Capcom, Capcom versus SNK. Those games have some very dedicated fans. Unfortunately, due to economic or licensing issues, it’s been very difficult to get some sequels to those types of games. With the UFS, there’s at least an aspect of that sort of ‘crossover’ between the characters of various universes, because the system allows it. As kids a lot of us always imagined those sort of what-if battles – now we can actually play them out.
RS: Look at Street Fighter 2. In that original game there were, what, 10 characters? With all of the various characters and decks that we’ve released, gamers can play matches with over 400 characters to choose from. You can choose to be aggressive and attack with one sort of character, or defensive with another.
Then there’s the fact that you can switch character cards and change no other cards –and the deck will play completely differently. For example, here’s a deck featuring Terry Bogard. You could switch his character card out for Mai’s. Terry’s more powerful, but Mai’s faster. The change in character attributes would completely change the way that the same deck operates. That makes for a lot of variations. Picking a good deck and playing it well requires a lot of skill…
KM: You mentioned that Matt Kohls won in 2006. Did he win again this year?
RS: No. He fell just shy – which is still pretty impressive, when you consider that 200 people competed. This year’s winner was a guy Andrew Olexa, from Michigan. That coolest prize in gaming is something that no other card gaming company does, and it can’t be bought. You must win it.
At Gen-Con, at the world championships, there was such a great atmosphere. The event lasted from early afternoon until 3 in the morning. Almost none of the people who got knocked out of the competition during the tournament left. They stayed to watch the winners. There was a really tense, but exciting atmosphere [during those matches.]
KM: Tell me what else you do to get new customers.
RS: Do you remember when SNK released that card game for the DS a little while ago?
KM:That Capcom versus SNK game?
RS: Yes, that one. You remember that there were a lot of defective copies of that game, right?
KM: I do remember that.
RS: Well, SNK told people to send them those defective copies, and they’d mail them a new game cartridge back. Then Sabertooth sent all 300 of them free demo decks.
KM: (looking at demo decks that RS has just brought out) Who does the art for these cards? I’ve been looking at some of the cards on your website, and there are a few pieces where I can say ‘I remember seeing that image before.’ But some of the art pieces I’ve never seen before. Do you have artists here on site?
RS: Actually, 90% of the art that we use for our cards is completely new. We obtain it either from Udon or from Imaginary Friends Studios, or from independent artists.
KM: Imaginary Friends?
RS: They do all of the art for the SNK and Soulcalibur III cards.
KM: Well, the art looks great.
RS: Yeah, and the fact that most of it’s new is an added selling point. There are some fans out there who will buy anything, as long as it has Vega’s face on it. Now we have new cards with different, all-new images of Vega on them for that fan.
KM: So tell me a little bit about you and what your responsibilities are here.
RS: Well, I’m the head of Marketing. I started out here at Sabertooth as a graphic designer. I made flyers and posters, all sorts of visuals. I would take art pieces and produce the cards in Photoshop. Then I was promoted to head of Marketing. I’m also head of Customer Service and oversee the Organized Play Team.
KM: Organized Play Team? What is that?
RS: The Organized Play Team is in charge of organizing exciting events to be held in our core hobby stores. People can come, play, meet new people who share the same interests, have fun, win cool prizes. Now they have an incentive to keep playing.
KM: You certainly do wear a lot of hats.
RS:(laughs) We all do.
KM: In fact, the entire team looks remarkably stress free considering all that you must do.
RS: Well, I’m glad that we’ve been able to keep up that illusion of being stress free! (laughs). We learned to focus on making the greatest number of people happy. Whoever discovers how to make everyone happy is going to become a super-billionaire.
KM: So how is it that Sabertooth Games came to make cards for all of these properties?
RS: Well, we knew that we wanted to make a fighting game, so we looked for those properties that were the most famous to work with.
KM: It’s amazing that a company that only has fifteen people could beat out some of those larger companies that you mentioned earlier, particularly since they must have wanted to use those properties as well.
RS: Well, you can’t judge a company by its size or by its money. Companies are made up of people, and ultimately, it is the abilities and values of those people that determines how successful that company is.
We promised Capcom and SNK that we were going to treat their licenses with the respect that they deserved.
We also recognize that we have investors to keep happy. The people who invest in Games Workshop expect Sabertooth Games to do its part in helping to make the company successful.
Everyone wants to work for a gaming company. People get very passionate about it. For us, it’s-
KM: It’s a job.
RS: It’s a job, but not just that. Being able to demo, get sales going, raise awareness – that’s what puts gas in my car’s tank. It’s what puts food in our mouths. It’s our livelihood. We take it seriously.
KM: Well, things seem to be working out for you.
RS: UFS is one of the fastest growing CCG’s in the world. We open dozens of new stores every month. We’ve been doing that for about a year now. So that’s like a billion stores.
KM: Uh….. (laughs)
RS: (laughs) Hey, I was an art major, not a math major.
KM: Who makes up your design team, and how long does it take to design a game?
RS: Wow, good question.We have one graphic designer. His name is Sabe Llewellyn. As I mentioned, we get the art from Udon and Imaginary Friends, and he uses it.
We have two game developers who develop the actual gameplay. Eric Yaple is our Product Developer, and Dave Freeman is our Lead Designer. Dave does the basic game design. He creates the cards, rules, and character abilities. Finally, we have our Art Director, Tom Kohler. All in all, those four guys set up the games and make them what they are. Dave will write all of the text for the cards, and then art is placed with that text. Then we get the play testers to test it.
KM: How many of your design team are videogamers?
RS: We all play videogames, except Anya Ward (our accountant) whose favorite roleplaying game is being a mom! (Laughs) When we first started doing the Street Fighter cards, we broke out the various different versions of the games and played them so that we can see the different character moves. Of course, Capcom gave us lists of each character’s moves, but we wanted to be able to see how they played and interacted. We noted Ken’s moves, how he spins his legs in certain attacks. Then we could get the art guys to translate those images accurately for the art.
We’re all gamers. So we ask ourselves ‘What would I think is cool?’
Selling a product isn’t hard. All you have to do is figure out what people want, and then make it.
KM: And then they pay you for it.
RS: And then they pay you for it. (laughs) You know that there’s a live action Street Fighter movie coming out in 2008, right?
KM: Really? No, I didn’t know that.
RS: There is. The story will center around Chun-Li. We’re planning on being involved in that in some way.
KM: ..Well, is the movie going to be better than the last one?
RS: (Pauses) I don’t know.
KM: It was worth a try. I guess that you also saw the Bionic Commando trailer, didn’t you? Are you guys going to do something with that?
RS: Sorry, can’t answer that.
KM: Wow. I just threw that out there. I wasn’t really expecting that response…
RS: (grins) That’s the great thing about UFS: nothing’s off limits.
PART TWO coming up...
Special thanks to Ken McIntyre for this interview. Lots of hard work transcribing and having this approved for the readers. Check back for the second interview with the CEO of Sabretooth Games, Stephen Horvath.
- by trieu
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Posted by Demosthenes @ 07/24/2008 11:02 AM PST
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